[music] yeah. I know soon so as soon as we hit record, then the noises start so now a little landscaping, a little little construction. Uh, have you had it through the pandemic? Has it been hard kind of doing stuff like this? Yeah, weirdly, it’s gotten easier because it’s quieter in our studio because we share the building with other tenants and the pandemic happens and then a lot of them work from home. So now the building’s quiet. Yeah, so that was kind of nice first of all. Thanks for joining me, Sundar! I’m sure you’re extremely busy at this particular time of year. So I appreciate the time one of my favorite parts of doing this. Uh, talking tech series. Is I get to talk to? People who have a unique perspective on tech and I feel like as a CEO of Google and alphabet. You’re almost required to have like some vision of a future. Uh, I’m curious. The number one question I always get is what’s the next big thing, so ill? Just leave you with this number. One faq. What is what does the future hold? What are your your big visions of the next five to ten years of tech? It’s a big question. Um, you know, the in some ways we tried to communicate aspects of that at IO yesterday and I’ve always felt at Google and at alphabet, we are working on deeper computer, science and AI. In a way by which you can, you can make real advances, but then take that and apply it practically to be helpful. Be it small moments or bigger moments. I see a lot of potential in the advances in Ai, but it’s equally important that you have a real framework by which you’re applying it, right, and that’s why when we say helpful, we have four attributes, we focus on knowledge, success, health and happiness, and I actually think through the work. We do the products I see and it could be something like in maps, you know, adding eco routes or deducting breaking moments and heartbreaking moments and making changes or it could be big like the mammography example, or or derma assist and so on. But you know, it’s thinking through with that framework in mind, definitely. I think Ai comes up a lot, especially when you watch a Google keynote. Ai is sort of part of the solution for almost every problem. You guys solve, uh? I wonder I assume you have to have a pretty optimistic view about the future of AI and and the structures you want to keep in place around it. But how much do you think about the potential negatives or potential downsides as Ai gets more advanced because I’ve talked to people who have a much more negative view about it. No I. I think it’s fair to be worried about worried about any any new technology. You know, technology has dual sites and I feel. Humanity’s journey has been at each stage. How do you figure out to harness technology in a way that benefits society and and for Ai is so profound I? I think that that’ll be true for Ai too, but I think the way you do. It is by working at it making progress. Uh, being transparent about it engaging in conversations and over time governments and there have to be other frameworks to evolve it. Yeah, yeah, should it be up to governments, or should it be up to those? Because this is a problem we see all the time is people who don’t know as much about the thing are in charge of regulating the thing. Should it be up to companies like Google to be as responsible as possible, or should there also be government structure around Ai? I think a combination of all that I think companies have to definitely, you know, be responsible because they are often developing technology early and you’re at the cutting edge of technology and it takes a while for governments to, you know, think about it and address. Yeah, but I think public-private partnerships are important, academia plays a strong role like an academic institutions and research Over time for something like Ai. You would need no different for something as big as climate change. You have concepts like Paris agreement, you know, you would need global frameworks because, uh, to to, uh, to think about it, but I am optimistic. I mean, I think you know. I see the benefits of all of the how all of this can impact, and you know. We have worked together hard to address issues in the past, so I think it’s easy to be optimistic because there’s so many good cool things happening from Ai. One of my favorite announcements from you guys was Google sort of adapting their computational photography to better account for different skin tones, and it seems like such a small thing, but it affects so many people. I mean, part of the reason I use the cameras that I do is because it can handle this latitude and different skin tones, and I like the way they look, but I’m curious. If you feel like there’s other quick practical applications of AI in the smartphone world, kind of like that. Yeah, I definitely think so. I was excited about project. Douglas, you know, my daughter had the same reaction. I was, you know, she literally had the same reaction when she first heard about it. She’s like was talking about the pictures, and she felt, you know, she wasn’t represented correctly, and and so I’m glad we addressed it and there’s more work to be done there. We have had the same experience with accessibility, so live captioning videos and you can do it on device and you can and the thing I always like about these things is even if you think of it as a feature to help the disabled community, it has wide applicability beyond that as well. You know, you could be in a meeting and you want to listen to a video and the captioning still works, right and or in a crowded place and so on, so I think all of this is much wider applicability, too, definitely the other Ai part. That was a little crazy was. I think it’s called Lambda. Correct me if I’m wrong L-a-m-d-a. But you, you demonstrated this, uh, conversational aspect of Ai, where it sort of uses information to answer questions about itself, So the demo was talking to Pluto, which was pretty cool. You know, Pluto gets to defend itself. Maybe it’s a little underrated, but I I imagine like my brain immediately went to well. What other things could you synthesize a conversation with? And I went straight to like people like other existing people. Are there lines? You won’t cross with things like project. Lambda, where? Like should you not be allowed to synthesize conversation with someone who’s alive? Or how do you think about like where Lambda can go? Um, you know, I want to stress. Lambda still research right. And, you know, so we’re pushing the boundary there. This is why let me step. This is why we, you know, articulated our ai principles very clearly and publicly so that we have a framework to think through anything like this when it comes to product. I think you know it’s really important like Ai is not ever used in an impersonation way, or, you know, or everything through the right constructs for how it is used, and so we are much more focused on using lambda to understand language deeper, okay, and and in the context you can imagine talking to Google Assistant. Yeah, so first of all search today. If it understood language deeper or even in Youtube when we are trying to understand what’s in a video, right, the fact that we can understand language deeper would make a big difference, so that’s the primary purpose, but in the in in conversing with an assistant, we can make conversations much more natural, so the intent is into. Uh, you know, Pluto. And a paper airplane are more benign examples, and but you know, we would have to have ethical principles and guidelines. Uh, around anything we developed there. What smartphone do you have in your pocket? And why that’s that’s probably the number one question people want me to ask you. You know, it changes a lot. Uh, depends on the day of the week. Uh, probably not as many as you play around with, but but someday you know, it may not be too far off either, but I do try out almost every phone at least for a little bit. Uh, I shouldn’t say every phone most phones, okay. Um, you know, but, uh, right now. In my pocket, it’s a pixel. Actually, that Texas should pull it out. Yeah, it could be any pixel. So you know, it’s a It’s. It’s a pixel. But it’s it’s the released version of the pixel. Now, but I, you know, I’ve enjoyed using the s21 and, uh, you know, and I check out everything that comes in the market. Oneplus maybe, and, you know, play around with it. Iphones across our products work across everything. So I’m testing a lot of devices. Yeah, it feels like if you’re. If you’re in, I mean, you started at Google with Chrome and then obviously with Android and now overseeing everything. Does it ever feel like you’re too in the weeds to appreciate how other people might use the product? Because when I’m making a video, for example, I might spend five six hours on an edit and then I I’m watching it back, looking for little things, and I might kind of lose the bigger picture of the person who jumps in for the first time if you’re using Android 12 and new features coming out and you’re testing it on on whatever daily phone it is, does that ever feel like a challenge to to step back and remember like people have to use this for the first time and how they’ll interact with it. Or do you feel like you’ve sort of got that down to a science? No, no well. What are you talking? It’s it’s a it’s the art of product management. I think stepping back, so there’s a difference between. Hey, Translation is exciting. We can build it in chrome. To how would you do it in a way in which, for most people it kind of naturally works. Yeah, and and designing. It are two different things. I think and so there’s a lot of that, but I actually find your point even broader a lot of the way when I do reviews with other teams, the perspective I almost always bring, and it could be anyone else in my position. Is, you know because the teams are so in the effort of what they are doing? Yeah, it’s it’s tough for them. To sometimes see the forest instead of the trees. And and so it’s a lot of what real life is about. I think I want to ask about your your like, overall view of you know, becoming a CEO of Google like you grew up in India and you’ve mentioned didn’t have access to the Internet or a computer for a long time. And then you came to the US and you had access to the Internet. Are there things that still surprise you about, like the advancements in tech and accessibility today? Even though you’ve seen so much of a difference between the beginning of your career and and now I think for me because growing up, every moment was discreet, like I had to wait a long time to get something. And then I saw the impact of it, right, You know, so waited five years on a waitlist to get a rotary telephone right and you may not know what a rotary telephone heard about this. I heard about those, but, you know, kind of changed the life. Uh, for me, my parents in our streets, People would come to our home to kind of use it to talk to their family and friends. So I’ve always had that, you know the impact of how it can change. People’s lives where it most directly impacted me is. I got inspired by the one laptop for Child Project, which which was being done by Negroponte at the time out of MIT. And I today look back at chromebooks or, you know, Android phones and to me feels like, you know, It’s an explicit continuation of that journey which which was inspiring to me. Right, here’s. Maybe an interesting question. Uh, the tech CEO has sort of become like its own genre of celebrity in a weird way in a way that it probably wasn’t even thought about 10 20 years ago. Do you think about that at all? Like, obviously there’s this? Uh, this new curiosity about the some of the most powerful companies in the world and the people that run them being a pretty understated guy. I would assume you’re probably not all about the spotlight, but I’m curious. What you feel about that, you know I? I recognize the responsibility which comes with it. You know, the scale at which tech is working in the world. Uh, I think I think there is an importance to it and rightfully there is accountability that comes with it, and I think the importance of engaging and explaining yourselves internally and externally, Uh, that comes with it, but beyond that, I don’t think too much about it and, you know, on a day-to-day basis is not how I approach it. Yeah, it’s fair. I like that answer. Uh, so let’s say you fast forward. Let’s go 50 years into the future. You’re retired from Google from Tech. How do you want your your fingerprint here in the tech world to be remembered? You know, uh, I would. I would love allow it to be about, you know, enabling radically more access to both information and computing to more people. That’s a big part of what I think about, you know, really driven by it, but beyond that, you know, I’ve always been interested in driving deeper, uh, technological progress and the obviously you have to take that and translate it into product and business success, right, and it goes hand in hand, but I think you know, driving Ai forward responsibly. Uh, you know, it’s a big part of what I think and work a lot on for sure, all right, well. I mean, I’m looking forward to a lot of the new stuff That’s coming out very excited about Android 12 and like all the customization. And and what is it called something you materialize materially? You like that’s a cool idea, so I’m looking forward to trying that out, but thanks for the time. I appreciate the interview and hopefully get to do it again sometime. All right. Thanks, Marcus, appreciate it. Yeah, thanks [Music].